1 00:00:06,896 --> 00:00:09,586 [music playing] 2 00:00:22,241 --> 00:00:25,931 JOE KENDA: January 8 of 2010, the Ridgeland, Mississippi 3 00:00:26,034 --> 00:00:28,724 police department gets a phone call that no one's ever 4 00:00:28,827 --> 00:00:29,517 going to forget. 5 00:00:30,724 --> 00:00:31,413 OPERATOR: Ridgeland 911. 6 00:00:39,965 --> 00:00:41,965 JOE KENDA: This is a very unusual call 7 00:00:42,068 --> 00:00:43,517 in a small town like Ridgeland. 8 00:00:43,620 --> 00:00:46,068 Very few homicides ever in this city. 9 00:00:51,379 --> 00:00:54,689 [theme music] 10 00:00:54,793 --> 00:00:57,275 JOE KENDA: I spent my career closing murder cases. 11 00:00:59,344 --> 00:01:02,068 But I'm not the only one who answered the call. 12 00:01:04,586 --> 00:01:08,931 It takes a rare breed to solve the unsolvable, 13 00:01:09,034 --> 00:01:13,586 to catch a ruthless killer, to find justice for the dead. 14 00:01:15,724 --> 00:01:20,241 That's what it takes to be an American Detective. 15 00:01:24,793 --> 00:01:26,206 FRANK DILLARD III: In 2010, I was 16 00:01:26,310 --> 00:01:29,551 a detective with the Richmond Police Department. 17 00:01:29,655 --> 00:01:32,793 The eerie thing is, some nights you knew the phone was 18 00:01:32,896 --> 00:01:34,172 going to ring before it rung. 19 00:01:34,275 --> 00:01:36,689 You could be laying in bed, and you just get the feeling. 20 00:01:36,793 --> 00:01:39,172 [phone vibrating] 21 00:01:40,103 --> 00:01:41,068 This is Dillard. 22 00:01:41,172 --> 00:01:43,413 I receive a call from my supervisor, 23 00:01:43,517 --> 00:01:45,482 telling me that they had a homicide 24 00:01:45,586 --> 00:01:47,413 at an apartment complex. 25 00:01:47,517 --> 00:01:48,758 I'm on the way. 26 00:01:48,862 --> 00:01:51,310 At this point, your brain is going 1,000 miles an hour. 27 00:01:51,413 --> 00:01:53,310 [siren] 28 00:01:58,896 --> 00:02:00,862 [thunder] 29 00:02:05,482 --> 00:02:07,103 When Dillard arrives at the crime scene, 30 00:02:07,206 --> 00:02:09,723 he's met by Brian Myers, who is the commander 31 00:02:09,827 --> 00:02:12,586 of the investigations unit on the police department. 32 00:02:12,689 --> 00:02:14,241 BRIAN MYERS: During a case like this, 33 00:02:14,344 --> 00:02:16,965 we're going to call just about everyone in on our team. 34 00:02:17,068 --> 00:02:20,620 And of course, we would call Frank in for the interviews. 35 00:02:20,724 --> 00:02:23,896 His specialty was interrogation. 36 00:02:24,000 --> 00:02:25,172 What we got? 37 00:02:25,275 --> 00:02:27,689 A young female deceased in the bedroom. 38 00:02:27,793 --> 00:02:30,896 The victim is 22-year-old Carmen Sanders. 39 00:02:31,000 --> 00:02:33,344 Apparently died of a stab wound to the chest. 40 00:02:36,379 --> 00:02:37,862 LANAYA LEWIS: Carmen was very bright. 41 00:02:39,551 --> 00:02:41,620 She was from Natchez, Mississippi, which is 42 00:02:41,724 --> 00:02:43,827 about two hours from Ridgeland. 43 00:02:43,931 --> 00:02:46,758 Carmen was a waitress and went to University 44 00:02:46,862 --> 00:02:49,000 of Mississippi Medical School. 45 00:02:50,965 --> 00:02:52,931 LANAYA LEWIS: She cared about her future. 46 00:02:53,034 --> 00:02:54,758 She wanted to make sure that she finished school. 47 00:02:56,793 --> 00:02:58,000 Any witnesses? 48 00:02:58,103 --> 00:03:00,482 Just one, 911 caller, the boyfriend, Michael Mason. 49 00:03:00,586 --> 00:03:02,241 JOE KENDA: Mr. Mason reported that he 50 00:03:02,344 --> 00:03:03,689 was out for the evening. 51 00:03:03,793 --> 00:03:05,758 And when he returned home, he discovered 52 00:03:05,862 --> 00:03:08,482 property had been stolen, and his girlfriend 53 00:03:08,586 --> 00:03:10,275 had been murdered. 54 00:03:10,379 --> 00:03:11,827 FRANK DILLARD III: Typically, people are killed 55 00:03:11,931 --> 00:03:12,724 by people that they know. 56 00:03:14,206 --> 00:03:16,103 So he very well could have been the person 57 00:03:16,206 --> 00:03:17,344 that committed the murder. 58 00:03:17,448 --> 00:03:19,689 Michael Mason has been removed from the apartment 59 00:03:19,793 --> 00:03:22,827 and taken to police headquarters for further interview. 60 00:03:22,931 --> 00:03:24,655 What'd he report stolen? 61 00:03:24,758 --> 00:03:26,586 Some electronics, a gaming system, I believe. 62 00:03:34,655 --> 00:03:36,586 BRIAN MYERS: I noticed upon entry into the apartment 63 00:03:36,689 --> 00:03:37,724 that there was no forced entry. 64 00:03:40,344 --> 00:03:41,413 JOE KENDA: Somebody didn't break in. 65 00:03:41,517 --> 00:03:42,724 They walked in. 66 00:03:42,827 --> 00:03:44,655 Did they walk in because they were invited? 67 00:03:44,758 --> 00:03:46,137 Was the door not locked? 68 00:03:46,241 --> 00:03:47,379 Did they have a key? 69 00:03:47,482 --> 00:03:49,310 Lots of possibilities, but the likelihood 70 00:03:49,413 --> 00:03:53,862 is that the attacker is known to the victim. 71 00:03:53,965 --> 00:03:56,206 BRIAN MYERS: Once we entered the apartment, it was in disarray. 72 00:03:59,103 --> 00:04:00,655 LANAYA LEWIS: They found that there was clothes 73 00:04:00,758 --> 00:04:02,724 just scattered all over the place on the couch 74 00:04:02,827 --> 00:04:03,517 and on the floor. 75 00:04:05,724 --> 00:04:06,862 FRANK DILLARD III: You have to survey, 76 00:04:06,965 --> 00:04:08,827 see exactly what you have. 77 00:04:08,931 --> 00:04:11,000 You have to go in and figure out, OK, 78 00:04:11,103 --> 00:04:13,517 was the house like this already? 79 00:04:13,620 --> 00:04:17,172 Did the suspect throw stuff around? 80 00:04:17,274 --> 00:04:18,137 Hey, check this out. 81 00:04:19,827 --> 00:04:21,793 JOE KENDA: When Dillard looked at the TV stand 82 00:04:21,896 --> 00:04:26,275 and looked under it, he sees a large, dust-free area, 83 00:04:26,379 --> 00:04:28,517 a clean dust mark where there was 84 00:04:28,620 --> 00:04:30,862 an object, most likely the gaming console 85 00:04:30,965 --> 00:04:33,965 that the owner claims was taken. 86 00:04:34,068 --> 00:04:35,034 Where's the body. 87 00:04:35,137 --> 00:04:36,000 Back bedroom. 88 00:04:41,241 --> 00:04:42,413 BRIAN MYERS: It was obvious that there 89 00:04:42,517 --> 00:04:43,379 was a struggle in the bedroom. 90 00:04:44,896 --> 00:04:47,620 The mattress was moved off of the bed a little bit, 91 00:04:47,724 --> 00:04:48,413 things in disarray. 92 00:04:56,206 --> 00:04:58,172 FRANK DILLARD III: She was wrapped in a brown comforter 93 00:04:58,275 --> 00:05:01,275 and had a butcher's knife through the comforter, 94 00:05:01,379 --> 00:05:02,034 through her body. 95 00:05:04,103 --> 00:05:07,310 It actually came to rest in the floor. 96 00:05:12,517 --> 00:05:14,000 BRYAN BUCKLEY: What stood out to me was her face. 97 00:05:16,000 --> 00:05:17,620 Her eyes were open. 98 00:05:17,724 --> 00:05:20,275 And those eyes-- you know, they were lifeless. 99 00:05:20,379 --> 00:05:23,068 And you knew that those eyes had seen who had killed her. 100 00:05:23,172 --> 00:05:25,793 And you wish you could see with those eyes had seen. 101 00:05:28,344 --> 00:05:29,793 JOE KENDA: Her jeans are unbuttoned, 102 00:05:29,896 --> 00:05:31,896 and her clothing is somewhat disheveled. 103 00:05:32,000 --> 00:05:34,172 Could this be a sexual assault, or could 104 00:05:34,275 --> 00:05:35,517 it be just something that happened 105 00:05:35,620 --> 00:05:36,793 in the course of the attack? 106 00:05:36,896 --> 00:05:38,103 It's a possibility. 107 00:05:40,206 --> 00:05:41,448 BRYAN BUCKLEY: Looking at Carmen's body, 108 00:05:41,551 --> 00:05:44,000 she was stabbed multiple times in the abdomen. 109 00:05:47,379 --> 00:05:50,793 JOE KENDA: This person was attacked in a manner 110 00:05:50,896 --> 00:05:53,620 referred to as a blitz attack. 111 00:05:53,724 --> 00:05:58,034 It is incredibly violent, and it is fatal, the earmark 112 00:05:58,137 --> 00:06:01,862 of someone who has a violent nature or a great deal 113 00:06:01,965 --> 00:06:02,827 of experience in violence. 114 00:06:04,172 --> 00:06:05,000 Do you see that? 115 00:06:07,620 --> 00:06:11,275 I then saw a smaller knife with a broken handle. 116 00:06:13,275 --> 00:06:14,862 FRANK DILLARD III: That speaks volumes to me. 117 00:06:14,965 --> 00:06:17,793 The mindset of this person's really enraged. 118 00:06:17,896 --> 00:06:20,517 You can see the life leaving this person. 119 00:06:20,620 --> 00:06:23,758 You can feel the knife entering this person's body. 120 00:06:28,862 --> 00:06:29,862 Let's bag it. 121 00:06:29,965 --> 00:06:31,275 Some prints. 122 00:06:31,379 --> 00:06:35,137 A lot of knife fights, when people are stabbing, 123 00:06:35,241 --> 00:06:38,310 it's not unusual for them to slip and cut themselves. 124 00:06:40,275 --> 00:06:41,965 JOE KENDA: So all blood samples will be taken 125 00:06:42,068 --> 00:06:45,310 to confirm that either it's all hers or it's hers 126 00:06:45,413 --> 00:06:46,793 and someone else's. 127 00:06:46,896 --> 00:06:47,965 Excuse me, detectives. 128 00:06:48,068 --> 00:06:49,448 There's something in the kitchen you should see. 129 00:06:54,310 --> 00:06:55,620 FRANK DILLARD III: Looking in the kitchen, 130 00:06:55,724 --> 00:06:58,000 you notice that the knife drawers are open. 131 00:06:58,103 --> 00:06:59,586 You noticed that stuff is everywhere. 132 00:06:59,689 --> 00:07:01,931 You also noticed that there's a dishwashing 133 00:07:02,034 --> 00:07:03,586 detergent everywhere. 134 00:07:03,689 --> 00:07:07,068 It's not unusual for burglars or people who break in 135 00:07:07,172 --> 00:07:09,448 to spread that to make it harder for you 136 00:07:09,551 --> 00:07:13,000 to lift prints, latent prints, or spread fingerprint dust. 137 00:07:14,931 --> 00:07:16,586 JOE KENDA: It tells Dillard there 138 00:07:16,689 --> 00:07:18,620 is some level of experience in whoever 139 00:07:18,724 --> 00:07:20,758 is responsible for this crime. 140 00:07:20,862 --> 00:07:23,793 They probably have a criminal record, 141 00:07:23,896 --> 00:07:26,931 or maybe they have been in custody to learn this trick. 142 00:07:29,448 --> 00:07:31,827 BRIAN MYERS: This was a very complex scene. 143 00:07:31,931 --> 00:07:34,793 I backed out and decided to call the Mississippi crime lab 144 00:07:34,896 --> 00:07:36,758 and let their forensics team come in 145 00:07:36,862 --> 00:07:37,931 and assist us with this one. 146 00:07:42,758 --> 00:07:44,413 JOE KENDA: Once they clear this evidence, 147 00:07:44,517 --> 00:07:47,137 the next step is to find her car, which was in the parking 148 00:07:47,241 --> 00:07:53,103 lot, and see if there's any evidence of violence in the car 149 00:07:53,206 --> 00:07:55,068 or in the area. 150 00:07:55,172 --> 00:07:57,068 They find no evidence indicating the car 151 00:07:57,172 --> 00:07:58,586 has any involvement in this offense. 152 00:08:03,379 --> 00:08:05,517 But inside the car is her purse. 153 00:08:08,068 --> 00:08:09,793 FRANK DILLARD III: That tells us that she 154 00:08:09,896 --> 00:08:12,448 wasn't planning on being inside the apartment very long. 155 00:08:16,724 --> 00:08:19,586 We found that Carmen's phone was in the purse. 156 00:08:19,689 --> 00:08:22,689 A phone is very important because you can track it. 157 00:08:22,793 --> 00:08:24,724 You can see what calls were made to whom, 158 00:08:24,827 --> 00:08:26,000 what calls were received. 159 00:08:27,551 --> 00:08:30,931 REPORTER: As investigators work to find a motive and a suspect, 160 00:08:31,034 --> 00:08:33,275 they're questioning Sanders inner circle, 161 00:08:33,379 --> 00:08:35,931 starting with her boyfriend. 162 00:08:36,034 --> 00:08:39,379 We're talking to him, getting information from him. 163 00:08:39,482 --> 00:08:41,586 At some point in time, he'll either be eliminated 164 00:08:41,688 --> 00:08:43,344 as a suspect or become one. 165 00:08:43,448 --> 00:08:45,827 So Dillard's next step is to talk to Michael 166 00:08:45,931 --> 00:08:48,000 Mason, his only lead. 167 00:08:48,103 --> 00:08:50,689 Because he's a good detective, he wanted to know what 168 00:08:50,793 --> 00:08:52,827 Mason said on the 911 call. 169 00:08:55,344 --> 00:08:57,000 FRANK DILLARD III: Went to the 911 center, 170 00:08:57,103 --> 00:08:58,344 Ridgeland Police Department. 171 00:08:58,448 --> 00:09:00,793 There was a lot of buzz from the other officers 172 00:09:00,896 --> 00:09:02,206 about the 911 call. 173 00:09:02,310 --> 00:09:04,413 It just didn't make sense. 174 00:09:04,517 --> 00:09:06,896 So I had to hear that for myself. 175 00:09:07,000 --> 00:09:07,724 There you go. 176 00:09:07,827 --> 00:09:08,586 FRANK DILLARD III: Thanks. 177 00:09:10,241 --> 00:09:13,172 NARRATOR: Dillard play a tape of the 911 call. 178 00:09:13,275 --> 00:09:14,448 He's extremely calm. 179 00:09:14,551 --> 00:09:17,379 He identifies himself by name, gives his address. 180 00:09:26,827 --> 00:09:30,241 He almost as an afterthought mentions, oh, by the way, 181 00:09:30,344 --> 00:09:32,172 my girlfriend's also been murdered. 182 00:09:32,275 --> 00:09:33,137 It's very odd. 183 00:09:41,689 --> 00:09:43,517 Stop the tape. 184 00:09:43,620 --> 00:09:46,137 It really didn't look good for him. 185 00:09:46,241 --> 00:09:48,034 I thought, OK, Michael Mason's trying 186 00:09:48,137 --> 00:09:53,103 to separate himself from this by saying that someone broke in. 187 00:09:53,206 --> 00:09:56,000 They stole all my stuff and killed my girlfriend. 188 00:09:57,862 --> 00:09:59,965 JOE KENDA: Well, Michael, did you kill your girlfriend 189 00:10:00,068 --> 00:10:01,103 and try to cover it up? 190 00:10:02,896 --> 00:10:04,413 Because we're going to get to the bottom of it. 191 00:10:09,448 --> 00:10:10,034 [music playing] 192 00:10:13,827 --> 00:10:15,413 After listening to the 911 call, 193 00:10:15,517 --> 00:10:18,000 detectives believe that Michael Mason could have killed 194 00:10:18,103 --> 00:10:21,206 his girlfriend, Carmen Sanders, and then covered 195 00:10:21,310 --> 00:10:23,034 it up as a robbery gone wrong. 196 00:10:29,586 --> 00:10:32,206 While Dillard makes his way to speak to Michael Mason, 197 00:10:32,310 --> 00:10:33,758 the victim's mother comes running 198 00:10:33,862 --> 00:10:36,000 into the police station, screaming that her daughter 199 00:10:36,103 --> 00:10:37,586 has been killed. 200 00:10:37,689 --> 00:10:39,034 My baby's gone! 201 00:10:41,586 --> 00:10:42,517 I know who did it! 202 00:10:42,620 --> 00:10:43,793 FRANK DILLARD III: Still to this day, 203 00:10:43,896 --> 00:10:46,931 I can still hear her screaming through the building, 204 00:10:47,034 --> 00:10:48,137 my baby's gone. 205 00:10:48,241 --> 00:10:50,586 You knew how much love she had for her daughter. 206 00:10:53,172 --> 00:10:54,517 Michael killed my baby. 207 00:10:54,620 --> 00:10:55,827 I don't know he did! 208 00:10:57,896 --> 00:11:01,344 CASSANDRA DOTSON: She was sobbing uncontrollably. 209 00:11:01,448 --> 00:11:04,862 She said, Michael killed my baby. 210 00:11:04,965 --> 00:11:05,655 I know he did. 211 00:11:07,068 --> 00:11:08,689 See what you can find out about Carmen 212 00:11:08,793 --> 00:11:10,206 and Michael's relationship. 213 00:11:11,517 --> 00:11:12,689 FRANK DILLARD III: Detective Dotson 214 00:11:12,793 --> 00:11:15,896 is the first black female officer for the Ridgeland 215 00:11:16,000 --> 00:11:16,896 Police Department. 216 00:11:17,000 --> 00:11:19,655 She closed out a lot of cases. 217 00:11:19,758 --> 00:11:21,655 Very passionate in what she does. 218 00:11:25,517 --> 00:11:29,034 CASSANDRA DOTSON: It hurts to see a parent cry. 219 00:11:29,137 --> 00:11:31,724 I take it personal because I have daughters. 220 00:11:31,827 --> 00:11:33,379 It made me want to do more. 221 00:11:45,551 --> 00:11:48,655 I was told that Carmen was a very nice person. 222 00:11:48,758 --> 00:11:50,000 She was a people person. 223 00:11:52,068 --> 00:11:54,172 LANAYA LEWIS: Carmen and her mother were very close. 224 00:11:54,275 --> 00:11:57,103 Carmen would go back home to Natchez frequently, 225 00:11:57,206 --> 00:11:59,034 visit family, visit friends. 226 00:12:00,586 --> 00:12:02,206 JOE KENDA: Mrs. Sanders explains her daughter 227 00:12:02,310 --> 00:12:03,896 Carmen had a life plan. 228 00:12:04,000 --> 00:12:06,862 She was taking courses for medical tech work 229 00:12:06,965 --> 00:12:10,034 and was working several jobs to pay for school. 230 00:12:10,137 --> 00:12:13,517 She lived with Michael Mason basically 231 00:12:13,620 --> 00:12:17,551 as a convenience and a way to split the cost of rent. 232 00:12:17,655 --> 00:12:20,655 Here is a girl who has a future, has a plan 233 00:12:20,758 --> 00:12:22,724 to reach that future, and somebody takes that 234 00:12:22,827 --> 00:12:24,482 away from her in an instant. 235 00:12:39,241 --> 00:12:40,896 CASSANDRA DOTSON: She said that Carmen and Michael 236 00:12:41,000 --> 00:12:42,310 were not getting along. 237 00:12:42,413 --> 00:12:44,068 Their relationship was deteriorating. 238 00:12:44,172 --> 00:12:46,896 She explained that her daughter had told her that she 239 00:12:47,000 --> 00:12:50,137 was having difficulty studying because he had 240 00:12:50,241 --> 00:12:51,724 friends come over all the time, and they 241 00:12:51,827 --> 00:12:53,206 played video games all night. 242 00:12:55,758 --> 00:12:56,482 Michael. 243 00:12:56,586 --> 00:12:57,551 Ooh, good ball. 244 00:12:57,655 --> 00:12:58,586 Ooh. 245 00:12:58,689 --> 00:13:00,034 Michael, can you that down please? 246 00:13:00,137 --> 00:13:01,413 I have a test in the morning. 247 00:13:02,379 --> 00:13:03,103 Let's go! 248 00:13:03,206 --> 00:13:04,206 Let's go! 249 00:13:04,310 --> 00:13:05,655 CASSANDRA DOTSON: I was informed that she 250 00:13:05,758 --> 00:13:08,655 would go to the back room while his guests were there. 251 00:13:10,103 --> 00:13:12,655 JOE KENDA: So Mrs. Sanders explains that it got worse 252 00:13:12,758 --> 00:13:16,206 with Michael, that he hacked her email account, found 253 00:13:16,310 --> 00:13:18,931 an email from a male friend, and he accused 254 00:13:19,034 --> 00:13:20,413 Carmen of seeing this man. 255 00:13:34,965 --> 00:13:35,827 Turn that down. 256 00:13:35,931 --> 00:13:36,689 Just listen to me. 257 00:13:36,793 --> 00:13:39,379 Get the hell out of my face! 258 00:13:39,482 --> 00:13:41,379 LANAYA LEWIS: Well, it got so bad that Michael 259 00:13:41,482 --> 00:13:43,896 pushed her during an argument. 260 00:13:44,000 --> 00:13:46,241 And any parent hearing that would think that their daughter 261 00:13:46,344 --> 00:13:47,000 would be in danger. 262 00:13:59,344 --> 00:14:03,172 It's possible, seeing as how he's surveilling her emails, 263 00:14:03,275 --> 00:14:05,758 that Michael could have learned that she was moving out. 264 00:14:05,862 --> 00:14:07,551 And could that have set him off? 265 00:14:07,655 --> 00:14:08,896 Maybe, maybe not. 266 00:14:09,000 --> 00:14:12,655 So far, we have innuendo and accusation. 267 00:14:12,758 --> 00:14:15,034 What we don't have is any hard evidence. 268 00:14:15,137 --> 00:14:16,137 We're going to need some of that. 269 00:14:17,862 --> 00:14:20,758 So she communicates this information to Dillard. 270 00:14:20,862 --> 00:14:23,034 And he now knows how to pursue this. 271 00:14:26,965 --> 00:14:29,586 First, he's just going to get a feel for Michael 272 00:14:29,689 --> 00:14:32,379 and see what he's like and see his demeanor. 273 00:14:35,413 --> 00:14:37,586 FRANK DILLARD III: I had to remember that, hey, I 274 00:14:37,689 --> 00:14:38,965 need him to confess. 275 00:14:39,068 --> 00:14:42,413 I need to be nice to him to get what I need out of him. 276 00:14:42,517 --> 00:14:45,620 And most importantly, he is innocent until I 277 00:14:45,724 --> 00:14:46,827 can prove that he's guilty. 278 00:14:52,827 --> 00:14:54,275 When he goes in to talk with him, 279 00:14:54,379 --> 00:14:57,000 he discovers a totally different person than what 280 00:14:57,103 --> 00:14:58,379 he'd sounded like on the phone. 281 00:15:03,413 --> 00:15:06,137 Mason is very distraught. 282 00:15:06,241 --> 00:15:07,517 And he says, I don't want a lawyer. 283 00:15:07,620 --> 00:15:09,275 I want to find who did this to her. 284 00:15:09,379 --> 00:15:11,862 And when Dillard asks him about the confrontations he's had 285 00:15:11,965 --> 00:15:14,137 with her, he said, that's true. 286 00:15:14,241 --> 00:15:15,862 LANAYA LEWIS: Michael thought Carmen was cheating 287 00:15:15,965 --> 00:15:17,793 with her ex-boyfriend Chris Baker, 288 00:15:17,896 --> 00:15:23,000 who she met in college at Mississippi State back in 2006. 289 00:15:23,103 --> 00:15:24,344 BRYAN BUCKLEY: He even said that he 290 00:15:24,448 --> 00:15:26,965 saw an email where she claimed that the boyfriend was 291 00:15:27,068 --> 00:15:27,758 her soulmate. 292 00:15:27,862 --> 00:15:30,413 So he seemed jealous of her. 293 00:15:30,517 --> 00:15:32,172 JOE KENDA: But he willingly says that, 294 00:15:32,275 --> 00:15:34,000 and he was sorry about that. 295 00:15:34,103 --> 00:15:36,448 So he's not trying to conceal that from Dillard. 296 00:15:36,551 --> 00:15:38,758 You have Michael to walk through his daily routine 297 00:15:38,862 --> 00:15:40,517 to see if his alibi will hold water. 298 00:15:46,448 --> 00:15:49,068 Michael worked as a substitute teacher at a middle school. 299 00:15:49,172 --> 00:15:52,000 He worked that day from like 7:30 to 3:30. 300 00:16:06,310 --> 00:16:09,655 But he also worked a second job, which was at a restaurant. 301 00:16:09,758 --> 00:16:12,724 And he went straight to his job at the restaurant 302 00:16:12,827 --> 00:16:14,413 and stayed there until about 10:30. 303 00:16:26,413 --> 00:16:29,241 Mason originally believes she's just joking around. 304 00:16:29,344 --> 00:16:32,103 And he said, come on, quit joking around. 305 00:16:32,206 --> 00:16:34,586 He pulls the comforter back, exposing 306 00:16:34,689 --> 00:16:37,137 that knife in her stomach and realizes 307 00:16:37,241 --> 00:16:38,275 she's not ever going to get up. 308 00:16:53,206 --> 00:16:55,620 And he ran out of the apartment to call 911. 309 00:17:16,378 --> 00:17:19,241 The more time I spent with him, the more I 310 00:17:19,344 --> 00:17:21,000 realized he was a gentle giant. 311 00:17:21,103 --> 00:17:25,550 The more I realized that this guy probably didn't do this. 312 00:17:27,378 --> 00:17:29,413 JOE KENDA: He takes a short break to make a few phone 313 00:17:29,517 --> 00:17:32,379 calls to Michael's employers. 314 00:17:32,482 --> 00:17:34,344 And he's able to confirm his whereabouts 315 00:17:34,448 --> 00:17:37,862 from 7:30 AM to 11:00 PM. 316 00:17:37,965 --> 00:17:40,448 With the evidence of Michael's alibi, 317 00:17:40,551 --> 00:17:43,793 it shows that he could not have done the murder. 318 00:17:45,482 --> 00:17:47,448 JOE KENDA: That takes him back to square one. 319 00:17:49,862 --> 00:17:51,275 Who killed Carmen Sanders? 320 00:17:53,241 --> 00:17:55,689 Because there was no signs of forced entry-- 321 00:17:55,793 --> 00:17:56,586 Please. 322 00:17:56,689 --> 00:17:58,034 No. 323 00:17:58,137 --> 00:18:00,655 BRYAN BUCKLEY: --it looks like Carmen let the killer inside. 324 00:18:00,758 --> 00:18:01,689 No! 325 00:18:01,793 --> 00:18:02,482 No! 326 00:18:02,586 --> 00:18:03,655 No! 327 00:18:03,758 --> 00:18:05,172 BRYAN BUCKLEY: If it's not going to be Michael, 328 00:18:05,275 --> 00:18:07,793 then it's got to be someone she knows. 329 00:18:07,896 --> 00:18:09,275 JOE KENDA: Now we have this Chris Baker, 330 00:18:09,379 --> 00:18:13,275 this mysterious maybe lover of Carmen Sanders. 331 00:18:13,379 --> 00:18:15,448 What does he have to do with this? 332 00:18:15,551 --> 00:18:18,344 And how can he explain what he's been up to 333 00:18:18,448 --> 00:18:19,758 on the evening of this crime? 334 00:18:23,793 --> 00:18:25,310 So while Dillard puts out the word 335 00:18:25,413 --> 00:18:28,172 to assist in finding Chris Baker, 336 00:18:28,275 --> 00:18:31,206 he's informed that the coroner has finished the autopsy. 337 00:18:31,310 --> 00:18:33,655 So Dillard response to the morgue to discuss 338 00:18:33,758 --> 00:18:34,724 this case with the coroner. 339 00:18:36,758 --> 00:18:39,310 She hadn't been punched, hadn't been hit, had no bruises. 340 00:18:39,413 --> 00:18:42,275 And even though her clothing was unbuttoned and somewhat 341 00:18:42,379 --> 00:18:44,689 disheveled, there was no evidence of sexual activity 342 00:18:44,793 --> 00:18:46,068 or sexual assault. 343 00:18:46,172 --> 00:18:48,137 Unfortunately, the lab wasn't able to recover 344 00:18:48,241 --> 00:18:50,965 any blood other than Carmen's at the scene. 345 00:18:51,068 --> 00:18:52,965 During inspection of Carmen's body, 346 00:18:53,068 --> 00:18:54,965 they noted that she had been stabbed 347 00:18:55,068 --> 00:18:56,827 more than a dozen times. 348 00:18:56,931 --> 00:18:59,448 I found 15 stab wounds in her abdomen. 349 00:18:59,551 --> 00:19:01,379 And you could tell that it was from two 350 00:19:01,482 --> 00:19:03,103 knives, differing depths. 351 00:19:04,482 --> 00:19:05,655 FRANK DILLARD III: The coroner also 352 00:19:05,758 --> 00:19:09,344 noted that a blade was broken off into her rib cage 353 00:19:09,448 --> 00:19:12,413 and was still inside of her body. 354 00:19:12,517 --> 00:19:15,655 JOE KENDA: The most revealing fact is that the actual murder 355 00:19:15,758 --> 00:19:18,275 weapon was a steak knife with a smaller blade, 356 00:19:18,379 --> 00:19:20,689 and a butcher knife was an afterthought. 357 00:19:22,103 --> 00:19:24,206 I surmised that once the steak knife 358 00:19:24,310 --> 00:19:32,068 was broken into her rib cage, the suspect threw it down. 359 00:19:32,172 --> 00:19:33,896 And then she was wrapped into the blanket. 360 00:19:34,000 --> 00:19:37,206 And post-mortem, we believe that the butcher knife 361 00:19:37,310 --> 00:19:38,896 was then shoved into her chest. 362 00:19:39,000 --> 00:19:42,620 And it actually came to rest in the concrete floor. 363 00:19:45,068 --> 00:19:46,724 That is enormous force. 364 00:19:46,827 --> 00:19:49,172 That's driven by one thing, and that's rage. 365 00:19:55,068 --> 00:19:56,241 REPORTER: Investigators say there 366 00:19:56,344 --> 00:19:57,965 were no signs of forced entry into the couple's 367 00:19:58,068 --> 00:20:00,034 apartment and report that the attack 368 00:20:00,137 --> 00:20:02,275 was at close range and violent. 369 00:20:02,379 --> 00:20:05,034 A key part of the investigation will be confirming 370 00:20:05,137 --> 00:20:07,034 when Sanders was murdered. 371 00:20:07,137 --> 00:20:09,724 We knew that she'd been home for some time. 372 00:20:09,827 --> 00:20:11,034 We're not sure exactly for how long. 373 00:20:11,137 --> 00:20:13,068 We're still canvassing the area, talking to neighbors, 374 00:20:13,172 --> 00:20:15,965 trying to pinpoint maybe an exact time of death. 375 00:20:17,827 --> 00:20:19,931 JOE KENDA: With her boyfriend, Michael Mason now cleared 376 00:20:20,034 --> 00:20:22,448 as a suspect, detectives are wondering if Chris 377 00:20:22,551 --> 00:20:23,758 Baker might be involved. 378 00:20:26,034 --> 00:20:27,517 FRANK DILLARD III: He was given a phone call, 379 00:20:27,620 --> 00:20:30,206 and he agreed to come meet with the detective 380 00:20:30,310 --> 00:20:32,068 regarding this case. 381 00:20:32,172 --> 00:20:33,413 JOE KENDA: In this particular case, 382 00:20:33,517 --> 00:20:35,689 Dillard asked Detective Dotson to begin 383 00:20:35,793 --> 00:20:36,689 the interview with him. 384 00:20:36,793 --> 00:20:38,379 And Dillard observes the interview 385 00:20:38,482 --> 00:20:39,379 through a two-way mirror. 386 00:20:48,965 --> 00:20:50,068 FRANK DILLARD III: You start looking 387 00:20:50,172 --> 00:20:52,620 for, where is he sitting? 388 00:20:52,724 --> 00:20:54,517 Does he have his arms crossed? 389 00:20:54,620 --> 00:20:55,896 Is he leaning toward the door? 390 00:21:21,965 --> 00:21:25,241 Mr. Baker does not exhibit any guilty behaviors 391 00:21:25,344 --> 00:21:30,000 or any behavior of being devious or withholding information. 392 00:21:45,482 --> 00:21:47,965 JOE KENDA: Baker said that he was aware she was dating 393 00:21:48,068 --> 00:21:50,000 Michael Mason at the time. 394 00:21:50,103 --> 00:21:51,413 Wasn't trying to interfere with that. 395 00:21:51,517 --> 00:21:53,758 Just wanted her to know that if in the future 396 00:21:53,862 --> 00:21:57,620 her circumstances changed, he would be interested in meeting 397 00:21:57,724 --> 00:21:58,413 her again. 398 00:22:28,517 --> 00:22:31,068 CASSANDRA DOTSON: Chris seemed to care about Carmen. 399 00:22:31,172 --> 00:22:31,862 They were friends. 400 00:22:33,206 --> 00:22:37,310 I think they had a love relationship, not physical, 401 00:22:37,413 --> 00:22:38,068 but caring. 402 00:22:48,517 --> 00:22:50,965 FRANK DILLARD III: Chris living about 180 miles away, 403 00:22:51,068 --> 00:22:54,448 and his phone records put him not near Ridgeland 404 00:22:54,551 --> 00:22:55,344 on the night of the murder. 405 00:22:56,862 --> 00:22:58,034 CASSANDRA DOTSON: At that point, we did 406 00:22:58,137 --> 00:22:59,379 not feel that he was a suspect. 407 00:23:00,793 --> 00:23:03,448 JOE KENDA: And so everything about this, including 408 00:23:03,551 --> 00:23:05,689 his alibi, is airtight. 409 00:23:05,793 --> 00:23:06,724 Baker is not involved. 410 00:23:08,827 --> 00:23:11,724 There was no triangle, and Baker is not part of anything. 411 00:23:18,241 --> 00:23:21,103 So Dillard is faced, as all homicide detectives are, 412 00:23:21,206 --> 00:23:22,448 with the need to start over. 413 00:23:23,965 --> 00:23:26,206 You pull all the stops out when you're working a homicide. 414 00:23:26,310 --> 00:23:29,620 If you don't have anything to go on, you go back to the basics. 415 00:23:29,724 --> 00:23:34,344 You start from point A. You go back to point Z. 416 00:23:34,448 --> 00:23:37,793 JOE KENDA: So he begins with recordings of Mason. 417 00:23:37,896 --> 00:23:39,482 He mentioned that couple of co-workers 418 00:23:39,586 --> 00:23:40,689 had been to his house. 419 00:23:40,793 --> 00:23:43,482 We got to figure out who would commonly come over. 420 00:23:43,586 --> 00:23:45,827 And we got to vet all of these people. 421 00:23:51,862 --> 00:23:53,793 FRANK DILLARD III: When I initially heard the name Robert 422 00:23:53,896 --> 00:23:55,551 Harvey, I thought I heard it before, 423 00:23:55,655 --> 00:23:56,793 but I wasn't totally sure. 424 00:23:59,034 --> 00:24:00,896 So I went and spoke with another detective, 425 00:24:01,000 --> 00:24:03,344 and I asked him about that name. 426 00:24:03,448 --> 00:24:05,827 Oh, yeah, I remember Harvey. 427 00:24:05,931 --> 00:24:07,517 He remembers it because he was going 428 00:24:07,620 --> 00:24:11,206 to serve an arrest warrant on him in a sexual assault case. 429 00:24:12,758 --> 00:24:15,137 FRANK DILLARD III: I actually went with Detective Morton 430 00:24:15,241 --> 00:24:16,896 to affect the warrant. 431 00:24:17,000 --> 00:24:20,137 But by the time we got to him, he had fled. 432 00:24:20,241 --> 00:24:23,551 He went to Florida and stayed for about 433 00:24:23,655 --> 00:24:25,689 a year and a half, two years. 434 00:24:25,793 --> 00:24:27,241 Remind me, what did you have on him? 435 00:24:28,931 --> 00:24:30,965 Well, we had a pretty strong case. 436 00:24:31,068 --> 00:24:35,724 According to the victim, she met Robert at a local mall. 437 00:24:35,827 --> 00:24:38,310 They talked a little bit, became friends. 438 00:24:38,413 --> 00:24:41,172 He convinced her to come to his apartment. 439 00:24:45,965 --> 00:24:47,068 I think I've got some wine coolers. 440 00:24:48,586 --> 00:24:49,620 OK, cool. 441 00:24:49,724 --> 00:24:50,827 But I can't stay long. 442 00:24:50,931 --> 00:24:52,068 I got to work tomorrow. 443 00:24:52,172 --> 00:24:52,896 Oh, me too. 444 00:24:53,000 --> 00:24:53,689 No worries. 445 00:24:56,413 --> 00:24:59,655 FRANK DILLARD III: Once he got her to his apartment, 446 00:24:59,758 --> 00:25:01,586 she said he became a different person. 447 00:25:01,689 --> 00:25:05,344 She became very afraid, and he threatened her. 448 00:25:13,827 --> 00:25:15,275 JOE KENDA: Then he sexually assaulted her, 449 00:25:15,379 --> 00:25:16,137 and she reported it. 450 00:25:17,827 --> 00:25:20,034 She felt like had she not given in that she 451 00:25:20,137 --> 00:25:22,068 would have been killed. 452 00:25:22,172 --> 00:25:24,655 Case got dropped when we couldn't find him. 453 00:25:24,758 --> 00:25:27,827 But we all knew he was responsible. 454 00:25:27,931 --> 00:25:29,103 JOE KENDA: He even said that Robert 455 00:25:29,206 --> 00:25:31,724 had a reputation among local prostitutes 456 00:25:31,827 --> 00:25:33,620 who are also police informants. 457 00:25:33,724 --> 00:25:35,689 They said he was really nice until he 458 00:25:35,793 --> 00:25:37,172 got you into his environment. 459 00:25:37,275 --> 00:25:39,379 He was very controlling. 460 00:25:39,482 --> 00:25:40,965 And at that point, you were going 461 00:25:41,068 --> 00:25:43,448 to do what he wanted him to do, or he was going to hurt you. 462 00:25:45,448 --> 00:25:47,275 After I pulled Robert Harvey's jacket, 463 00:25:47,379 --> 00:25:48,793 I learned that he had multiple arrests. 464 00:25:50,655 --> 00:25:53,965 But one causes Dillard to drop his pencil. 465 00:25:55,655 --> 00:25:56,413 Get up! 466 00:25:56,517 --> 00:25:58,137 I'm so sick of you! 467 00:25:58,241 --> 00:25:59,448 I'm sick of you, Robert! 468 00:25:59,551 --> 00:26:00,379 No! 469 00:26:00,482 --> 00:26:01,172 No! 470 00:26:02,206 --> 00:26:03,172 Shut up! 471 00:26:03,275 --> 00:26:04,172 No! 472 00:26:04,275 --> 00:26:05,172 No! 473 00:26:05,275 --> 00:26:06,655 No! 474 00:26:06,758 --> 00:26:10,103 [choking] 475 00:26:11,310 --> 00:26:13,000 Robert Harvey strangled his kid's mother. 476 00:26:16,586 --> 00:26:18,655 He has killed before. 477 00:26:22,275 --> 00:26:26,206 In 1996, he was found guilty of manslaughter 478 00:26:26,310 --> 00:26:29,206 and was sentenced to 20 years in prison in Mississippi, 479 00:26:29,310 --> 00:26:32,931 but released after five years due to overcrowding. 480 00:26:33,034 --> 00:26:34,034 That is startling. 481 00:26:37,551 --> 00:26:40,931 FRANK DILLARD III: When you look at how Carmen was killed versus 482 00:26:41,034 --> 00:26:44,172 how Robert Harvey killed his kid's mother, 483 00:26:44,275 --> 00:26:46,620 you look at the power struggle. 484 00:26:46,724 --> 00:26:48,655 You're right on top of somebody, strangling them. 485 00:26:48,758 --> 00:26:50,413 You're right on top of them, stabbing them. 486 00:26:50,517 --> 00:26:52,275 This is up front and close and personal, 487 00:26:52,379 --> 00:26:54,965 looking them in the eyes and taking their life. 488 00:26:55,068 --> 00:26:59,482 I suspected that I was dealing with a possible serial killer. 489 00:26:59,586 --> 00:27:00,896 No. 490 00:27:01,000 --> 00:27:01,724 Please. 491 00:27:01,827 --> 00:27:02,517 No. 492 00:27:02,620 --> 00:27:03,586 Stop! No! 493 00:27:03,689 --> 00:27:04,448 Stop! 494 00:27:04,551 --> 00:27:06,724 And he is still on the loose. 495 00:27:06,827 --> 00:27:08,000 Will we have another killing? 496 00:27:13,689 --> 00:27:15,586 [music playing] 497 00:27:15,689 --> 00:27:17,517 JOE KENDA: Detective Dillard and his team 498 00:27:17,620 --> 00:27:20,517 are investigating the murder of 22-year-old Carmen Sanders. 499 00:27:22,068 --> 00:27:27,896 They've cleared two suspects, Chris Baker and Michael Mason. 500 00:27:28,000 --> 00:27:29,931 But the chance mention of a friend 501 00:27:30,034 --> 00:27:34,448 of Mason's, a Robert Harvey, has put Dillard on the right track. 502 00:27:36,172 --> 00:27:37,931 BRIAN MYERS: He's already killed one person, served time. 503 00:27:38,034 --> 00:27:39,206 No! No! 504 00:27:39,310 --> 00:27:40,034 Now he's out. 505 00:27:40,137 --> 00:27:41,896 We had a possible serial killer. 506 00:27:42,000 --> 00:27:43,724 We wanted to get him in custody quickly. 507 00:27:46,413 --> 00:27:50,482 Harvey was living less than a mile away from the crime scene 508 00:27:50,586 --> 00:27:52,655 at another apartment complex with his mother. 509 00:27:52,758 --> 00:27:54,241 Detective Dotson reached out to her. 510 00:27:56,206 --> 00:27:58,172 She actually knew Harvey's mother. 511 00:28:02,724 --> 00:28:05,413 CASSANDRA DOTSON: It was kind of hard for me to go to her 512 00:28:05,517 --> 00:28:08,448 and seek out this information because I knew Carolyn. 513 00:28:08,551 --> 00:28:10,206 We were schoolmates. 514 00:28:10,310 --> 00:28:12,310 And she loved her kids. 515 00:28:14,689 --> 00:28:16,862 But I had a job to do. 516 00:28:16,965 --> 00:28:19,137 Ms. Sanders, the mother, continued 517 00:28:19,241 --> 00:28:20,758 to be in my mind, my heart. 518 00:28:20,862 --> 00:28:22,586 And I wanted to make sure I got some answers. 519 00:28:29,206 --> 00:28:31,482 When you're dealing with a family member of a suspect, 520 00:28:31,586 --> 00:28:33,206 you don't want to reveal too much. 521 00:28:33,310 --> 00:28:35,931 So in this case, we were trying to be 522 00:28:36,034 --> 00:28:38,896 as transparent as we could without jeopardizing the case. 523 00:28:54,655 --> 00:28:56,448 CASSANDRA DOTSON: I could feel her hurt, 524 00:28:56,551 --> 00:28:59,379 but I think she wanted to do the right thing, 525 00:28:59,482 --> 00:29:02,827 even if it was involving her child. 526 00:29:02,931 --> 00:29:04,689 JOE KENDA: She said, well, Robert told me that there was 527 00:29:04,793 --> 00:29:06,896 no forced entry, that soap had been 528 00:29:07,000 --> 00:29:09,758 scattered all over the apartment to destroy evidence. 529 00:29:17,068 --> 00:29:18,241 And what was interesting is this 530 00:29:18,344 --> 00:29:19,620 is right after this occurred. 531 00:29:19,724 --> 00:29:21,172 And none of this had been released to the media. 532 00:29:23,517 --> 00:29:24,862 JOE KENDA: The only way Harvey would 533 00:29:24,965 --> 00:29:29,000 know the details he gave his mother is if he was there, 534 00:29:29,103 --> 00:29:30,655 and he did them. 535 00:29:30,758 --> 00:29:32,413 There was no other explanation. 536 00:29:33,551 --> 00:29:34,586 FRANK DILLARD III: But we didn't have 537 00:29:34,689 --> 00:29:37,000 the evidence, circumstantial or not, 538 00:29:37,103 --> 00:29:38,620 at this point to arrest him. 539 00:29:38,724 --> 00:29:40,310 So at this point, we're building a case. 540 00:29:43,103 --> 00:29:45,448 JOE KENDA: Dillard is aware that in the past, when 541 00:29:45,551 --> 00:29:49,241 Harvey was wanted by the police, he would flee the jurisdiction. 542 00:29:49,344 --> 00:29:51,275 So Dillard wants to put together a plan 543 00:29:51,379 --> 00:29:55,172 that gets him in custody before he runs to God knows where. 544 00:29:55,275 --> 00:29:57,517 So the plan is to surveil him and arrest him. 545 00:29:59,620 --> 00:30:01,793 BRIAN MYERS: We actually kept Mr. Harvey under surveillance 546 00:30:01,896 --> 00:30:02,758 for a couple of days. 547 00:30:04,862 --> 00:30:06,655 FRANK DILLARD III: We had great expectations. 548 00:30:06,758 --> 00:30:08,206 You might see him talking to someone who might 549 00:30:08,310 --> 00:30:09,896 be another person of interest. 550 00:30:11,931 --> 00:30:15,482 He might take you to where some of the stolen items are. 551 00:30:15,586 --> 00:30:18,586 You want to find that smoking gun, that golden bullet. 552 00:30:32,344 --> 00:30:33,413 Damn. 553 00:30:33,517 --> 00:30:35,413 He's going straight home three nights in a row. 554 00:30:35,517 --> 00:30:37,862 While they tail him for a number of days, 555 00:30:37,965 --> 00:30:41,310 Harvey keeps a low profile and only leaves his mother's house 556 00:30:41,413 --> 00:30:43,103 to go to work. 557 00:30:43,206 --> 00:30:45,103 FRANK DILLARD III: It was somewhat frustrating. 558 00:30:45,206 --> 00:30:48,000 Robert Harvey was, indeed, a flight risk. 559 00:30:48,103 --> 00:30:51,206 No one wants to be the one that let anybody, especially 560 00:30:51,310 --> 00:30:53,275 a murderer, get away. 561 00:30:53,379 --> 00:30:56,206 So you pull out all the stops on a homicide. 562 00:30:56,310 --> 00:30:57,551 You have to. 563 00:30:57,655 --> 00:31:01,862 Dispatch, give me Commander Myers now. 564 00:31:01,965 --> 00:31:03,689 JOE KENDA: They are aware by his record, 565 00:31:03,793 --> 00:31:06,241 his driver's license is suspended. 566 00:31:06,344 --> 00:31:10,896 So he is illegally operating a motor vehicle under suspension. 567 00:31:11,000 --> 00:31:14,103 We knew that he had an incorrect tag on his vehicle, 568 00:31:14,206 --> 00:31:16,517 which was enough to pull him over and arrest 569 00:31:16,620 --> 00:31:17,896 him on a traffic violation. 570 00:31:25,172 --> 00:31:27,344 JOE KENDA: The point is to get him into custody 571 00:31:27,448 --> 00:31:29,172 and maybe get a confession. 572 00:31:31,275 --> 00:31:34,137 And the next day, they get their chance. 573 00:31:34,241 --> 00:31:36,862 Suspect is turning onto Broad Street. 574 00:31:36,965 --> 00:31:37,655 Everybody get ready. 575 00:31:39,344 --> 00:31:41,655 While we were following him, we got him inside the city 576 00:31:41,758 --> 00:31:43,517 limits of Ridgeland. 577 00:31:43,620 --> 00:31:45,896 I'm thinking, is this guy dangerous? 578 00:31:46,000 --> 00:31:46,931 Yes, he's dangerous. 579 00:31:52,310 --> 00:31:53,827 This guy's served time. 580 00:31:53,931 --> 00:31:55,034 He's done this before. 581 00:31:55,137 --> 00:31:56,793 This is not a normal traffic stop. 582 00:31:59,862 --> 00:32:02,862 We are going to be prepared for the worst on a traffic 583 00:32:02,965 --> 00:32:03,724 stop of that nature. 584 00:32:06,758 --> 00:32:07,448 Show me your hands! 585 00:32:09,758 --> 00:32:11,689 JOE KENDA: All it takes is for a split second-- 586 00:32:11,793 --> 00:32:12,689 Show me your hands! 587 00:32:12,793 --> 00:32:14,172 Get out of the car! 588 00:32:14,275 --> 00:32:15,517 JOE KENDA: --for things to go south. 589 00:32:21,551 --> 00:32:23,068 And these officers are ready for anything. 590 00:32:29,517 --> 00:32:30,862 Show me your hands! 591 00:32:35,862 --> 00:32:40,034 We carefully approach the car on both sides just 592 00:32:40,137 --> 00:32:42,724 to make sure he wasn't going for a gun or something like that. 593 00:32:42,827 --> 00:32:44,655 You never know with someone who's been in the system 594 00:32:44,758 --> 00:32:45,448 that many times. 595 00:32:55,241 --> 00:32:57,310 Turn away from me. 596 00:32:57,413 --> 00:32:59,448 Walk back to the sound of my voice. 597 00:32:59,551 --> 00:33:00,758 He was compliant. 598 00:33:00,862 --> 00:33:02,862 And we got him out of the car, got him patted down, 599 00:33:02,965 --> 00:33:03,793 took him into custody. 600 00:33:07,413 --> 00:33:09,172 JOE KENDA: When they bring him into police headquarters, 601 00:33:09,275 --> 00:33:11,586 Dillard is getting ready to talk to him 602 00:33:11,689 --> 00:33:14,448 and is assuming he's going to talk to a hard-nosed convict. 603 00:33:17,413 --> 00:33:19,413 Dillard is considered to be one of the best 604 00:33:19,517 --> 00:33:21,482 interrogators in the Ridgeland Police Department. 605 00:33:21,586 --> 00:33:24,275 He stays with it, and he can play with people 606 00:33:24,379 --> 00:33:26,482 for hours at a time. 607 00:33:26,586 --> 00:33:28,758 FRANK DILLARD III: Now it's up to me to do my part. 608 00:33:28,862 --> 00:33:29,931 That's a lot of pressure. 609 00:33:30,034 --> 00:33:31,620 The last thing you want to do is let someone who 610 00:33:31,724 --> 00:33:33,034 committed a homicide get away. 611 00:33:41,896 --> 00:33:44,000 Once I entered the interview room, 612 00:33:44,103 --> 00:33:46,724 Robert Harvey was very polite and extremely calm. 613 00:33:59,034 --> 00:34:00,310 FRANK DILLARD III: You're waiting for him 614 00:34:00,413 --> 00:34:01,965 to make some kind of mistake. 615 00:34:02,068 --> 00:34:04,896 But he's extremely nice, extremely polite. 616 00:34:05,000 --> 00:34:06,310 In the back of your mind, you're thinking, 617 00:34:06,413 --> 00:34:08,034 OK, this guy's not acting like a murderer, 618 00:34:08,137 --> 00:34:11,137 but he's giving off clues that he knows something. 619 00:34:12,896 --> 00:34:14,310 JOE KENDA: Dillard asked him, what 620 00:34:14,413 --> 00:34:17,482 do you know about the murder of Carmen Sanders? 621 00:34:17,585 --> 00:34:18,344 Well, nothing. 622 00:34:18,447 --> 00:34:19,413 I don't know anything about it. 623 00:34:19,516 --> 00:34:21,344 He doesn't mention that he told his mother 624 00:34:21,447 --> 00:34:23,206 in detail facts of the crime. 625 00:34:35,000 --> 00:34:36,310 He denied knowing Carmen. 626 00:34:36,413 --> 00:34:38,068 He said he didn't know what I was talking about, 627 00:34:38,172 --> 00:34:38,862 never met her. 628 00:34:40,931 --> 00:34:43,241 JOE KENDA: He asks him where he was the night that Carmen 629 00:34:43,344 --> 00:34:44,379 Sanders was murdered. 630 00:34:44,482 --> 00:34:46,172 And he reports that he was visiting 631 00:34:46,275 --> 00:34:48,482 a female friend in that area that he 632 00:34:48,585 --> 00:34:49,379 hadn't seen for a while. 633 00:34:50,551 --> 00:34:51,793 FRANK DILLARD III: And I'm thinking, 634 00:34:51,896 --> 00:34:55,551 OK, he's probably lying to me, but I can't prove it yet. 635 00:34:55,655 --> 00:34:57,137 I've been a detective long enough 636 00:34:57,241 --> 00:34:59,310 to know that if you stick with it long enough 637 00:34:59,413 --> 00:35:01,793 and turn over enough rocks, you're going to find something. 638 00:35:03,758 --> 00:35:06,172 JOE KENDA: Dillard has to put him off balance. 639 00:35:06,275 --> 00:35:08,172 He has to change his approach to him. 640 00:35:10,379 --> 00:35:11,931 And a way to do that is to leave the room. 641 00:35:17,517 --> 00:35:20,000 The greatest enemy you have when you're guilty of a crime 642 00:35:20,103 --> 00:35:20,793 is your mind. 643 00:35:24,793 --> 00:35:27,172 You begin to think up horrible scenarios 644 00:35:27,275 --> 00:35:29,482 on what that detective could be learning when he's 645 00:35:29,586 --> 00:35:30,517 not sitting in front of you. 646 00:35:32,896 --> 00:35:34,068 BRIAN MYERS: Frank was methodical. 647 00:35:34,172 --> 00:35:35,379 He always took his time. 648 00:35:35,482 --> 00:35:37,413 Sometimes that was a little unnerving 649 00:35:37,517 --> 00:35:39,000 because it just took so long. 650 00:35:39,103 --> 00:35:43,793 But in an interview, he would sit for six hours if need be. 651 00:35:43,896 --> 00:35:47,034 So the next step is to see whether he was visiting 652 00:35:47,137 --> 00:35:48,275 this girl at that time. 653 00:35:52,137 --> 00:35:53,379 FRANK DILLARD III: I found the friend 654 00:35:53,482 --> 00:35:56,000 that he claimed to have been visiting and spoke with her. 655 00:35:56,103 --> 00:35:58,241 And she said she hadn't spoken with him in months. 656 00:35:59,758 --> 00:36:03,068 Dillard begins to unravel Harvey's story. 657 00:36:03,172 --> 00:36:04,517 I know he's a liar. 658 00:36:04,620 --> 00:36:06,000 I can prove he's a liar at this point. 659 00:36:10,275 --> 00:36:13,448 Sergeant Dixon was very integral with the case. 660 00:36:13,551 --> 00:36:15,275 He did the interviews with me. 661 00:36:19,068 --> 00:36:21,137 We checked with that girl you said you visited. 662 00:36:21,241 --> 00:36:22,551 She hasn't seen you in months. 663 00:36:22,655 --> 00:36:24,620 But you said that's where you were, but you weren't there. 664 00:36:31,379 --> 00:36:32,413 FRANK DILLARD III: At that point, 665 00:36:32,517 --> 00:36:33,586 his whole demeanor changed. 666 00:36:33,689 --> 00:36:37,517 He has to redirect his thinking to, OK, 667 00:36:37,620 --> 00:36:38,965 this guy knows something. 668 00:36:39,068 --> 00:36:40,862 He knows I'm lying about something. 669 00:36:51,551 --> 00:36:55,413 Harvey then tried to tell detectives that he and Carmen 670 00:36:55,517 --> 00:36:57,827 were involved with each other, that they 671 00:36:57,931 --> 00:37:00,034 had been seeing each other, and they didn't 672 00:37:00,137 --> 00:37:01,448 want Michael to find out. 673 00:37:16,275 --> 00:37:17,896 JOE KENDA: He said, well, actually, I went over 674 00:37:18,000 --> 00:37:19,793 there to have sex with her. 675 00:37:19,896 --> 00:37:21,413 And she was dead when I got there. 676 00:37:21,517 --> 00:37:23,655 According to him, someone else committed the murder. 677 00:37:36,000 --> 00:37:38,758 And he ran out of the apartment, but what's he done? 678 00:37:38,862 --> 00:37:41,448 He's put himself in that apartment 679 00:37:41,551 --> 00:37:43,482 alone with a homicide victim. 680 00:37:43,586 --> 00:37:44,275 That's what he's done. 681 00:37:45,689 --> 00:37:46,793 FRANK DILLARD III: For Robert Harvey 682 00:37:46,896 --> 00:37:49,000 to admit to being in Carmen's apartment, 683 00:37:49,103 --> 00:37:50,172 that is a game-changer. 684 00:37:50,275 --> 00:37:53,068 Because we went from being on the outskirts 685 00:37:53,172 --> 00:37:56,620 to not knowing her at all to being now in that apartment. 686 00:37:58,103 --> 00:37:59,862 JOE KENDA: So Dillard keeps going with this game 687 00:37:59,965 --> 00:38:02,689 because it's working nicely for him. 688 00:38:02,793 --> 00:38:04,172 FRANK DILLARD III: I asked him, OK, well 689 00:38:04,275 --> 00:38:05,310 you're having sex with her. 690 00:38:05,413 --> 00:38:07,310 I understand then why you're at the apartment. 691 00:38:07,413 --> 00:38:10,482 Tell me about the tattoos that she has and the scars. 692 00:38:10,586 --> 00:38:12,413 He told me he didn't see any tattoos and scars. 693 00:38:12,517 --> 00:38:16,172 Well, she has tattoos, Robert, all over her chest. 694 00:38:16,275 --> 00:38:17,586 FRANK DILLARD III: He said that, well, 695 00:38:17,689 --> 00:38:20,965 she always kept her shirt on, which did not make sense to me. 696 00:38:34,413 --> 00:38:37,551 He has a preposterous answer for every question 697 00:38:37,655 --> 00:38:38,344 Dillard poses. 698 00:38:57,241 --> 00:39:00,103 JOE KENDA: He's obviously lying, and he's lying very badly. 699 00:39:08,482 --> 00:39:12,137 And at that point, I believe he asked for an attorney. 700 00:39:12,241 --> 00:39:15,620 By law, you have to stop the interview. 701 00:39:15,724 --> 00:39:18,517 But at that point, he's charged with capital murder. 702 00:39:18,620 --> 00:39:20,862 We can offer an explanation of what 703 00:39:20,965 --> 00:39:24,689 happened in this crime by conjecture and by opinion, 704 00:39:24,793 --> 00:39:25,689 not by fact. 705 00:39:25,793 --> 00:39:27,896 Mr. Harvey never said what he did. 706 00:39:35,034 --> 00:39:37,689 We know that our victim, Carmen Sanders, 707 00:39:37,793 --> 00:39:39,965 was innocently going to stop by her apartment 708 00:39:40,068 --> 00:39:42,413 to get something before she met her friend for dinner. 709 00:39:44,241 --> 00:39:45,655 BRIAN MYERS: She didn't lock the door. 710 00:39:45,758 --> 00:39:48,103 She was coming in and leaving right away. 711 00:39:51,793 --> 00:39:53,482 Either Robert knocked on the door, 712 00:39:53,586 --> 00:39:57,103 and she opened it for him, or she left it unlocked, 713 00:39:57,206 --> 00:39:57,965 and he just came in. 714 00:40:02,758 --> 00:40:04,724 I believe his intent was on raping her. 715 00:40:06,793 --> 00:40:10,448 [gasps] Uh, Michael's not here. 716 00:40:10,551 --> 00:40:11,482 It's cold outside. 717 00:40:11,586 --> 00:40:12,379 Let me wait in here for him. 718 00:40:12,482 --> 00:40:13,448 No, I got to go-- 719 00:40:13,551 --> 00:40:14,551 Come on, girl. 720 00:40:14,655 --> 00:40:15,827 You know we can hang for a minute, right? 721 00:40:15,931 --> 00:40:16,655 Get off of me. 722 00:40:19,965 --> 00:40:22,448 BRIAN MYERS: I think he had a sexual interest in this 723 00:40:22,551 --> 00:40:24,241 and some anger issues as well. 724 00:40:24,344 --> 00:40:27,103 I believe he came in on her, and she ran from him. 725 00:40:27,206 --> 00:40:28,000 Please. 726 00:40:28,103 --> 00:40:29,379 No. 727 00:40:29,482 --> 00:40:31,896 As small as the apartment was, she wouldn't have had a way 728 00:40:32,000 --> 00:40:33,103 out no matter where she went. 729 00:40:33,206 --> 00:40:34,172 She was trapped in that bedroom. 730 00:40:35,620 --> 00:40:38,103 JOE KENDA: Carmen encountered a violent criminal 731 00:40:38,206 --> 00:40:39,758 at exactly the wrong moment. 732 00:40:39,862 --> 00:40:40,724 No! 733 00:40:40,827 --> 00:40:41,724 No! 734 00:40:41,827 --> 00:40:43,034 No! 735 00:40:43,137 --> 00:40:45,655 JOE KENDA: When his instinctive reaction was to attack 736 00:40:45,758 --> 00:40:47,931 and kill her in a blitz attack. 737 00:40:48,034 --> 00:40:49,620 She grabbed that comforter as a shield 738 00:40:49,724 --> 00:40:50,793 and tried to wrap herself in it. 739 00:40:52,482 --> 00:40:56,103 JOE KENDA: He stabbed her multiple times 740 00:40:56,206 --> 00:40:59,000 till the blade of the knife broke off in her rib cage. 741 00:41:04,965 --> 00:41:06,517 BRIAN MYERS: She's already down on the ground. 742 00:41:06,620 --> 00:41:08,344 He has the time to go back to the kitchen 743 00:41:08,448 --> 00:41:10,827 and get another knife and come back and finish her off. 744 00:41:13,931 --> 00:41:15,655 He drove it all the way through her body 745 00:41:15,758 --> 00:41:17,620 and stuck it into the floor. 746 00:41:17,724 --> 00:41:19,103 That is violence. 747 00:41:20,689 --> 00:41:23,034 I'm sure somebody told him to spread 748 00:41:23,137 --> 00:41:26,862 detergent all over everything to break up fingerprints. 749 00:41:30,206 --> 00:41:32,206 He then took the game console and fled. 750 00:41:35,758 --> 00:41:39,758 And he wound up selling it for $100. 751 00:41:39,862 --> 00:41:41,724 [buzzing] 752 00:41:44,310 --> 00:41:48,413 In May 2011, Robert Harvey pled guilty to the murder 753 00:41:48,517 --> 00:41:49,275 of Carmen Sanders. 754 00:41:51,551 --> 00:41:54,862 He is currently serving a life sentence in Mississippi. 755 00:42:00,310 --> 00:42:02,000 FRANK DILLARD III: We got the results that we wanted. 756 00:42:03,896 --> 00:42:05,827 Now, would I have wanted something stiffer, 757 00:42:05,931 --> 00:42:07,137 maybe the death penalty? 758 00:42:07,241 --> 00:42:09,827 Possibly, but I understand that sometimes you 759 00:42:09,931 --> 00:42:11,310 have to take what you can get. 760 00:42:11,413 --> 00:42:13,310 In this case, I think we did pretty good. 761 00:42:13,413 --> 00:42:16,758 It's upsetting because a person's life is taken away. 762 00:42:16,862 --> 00:42:19,103 They're not able to fulfill their goals 763 00:42:19,206 --> 00:42:20,724 that they had for their life. 764 00:42:20,827 --> 00:42:24,620 She never finished school, and she never got to truly be happy 765 00:42:24,724 --> 00:42:26,000 and be where she wanted to be. 766 00:42:31,241 --> 00:42:34,137 JOE KENDA: People can lose their lives in a violent manner 767 00:42:34,241 --> 00:42:36,965 through absolutely no fault of their own. 768 00:42:37,068 --> 00:42:38,689 That's the reality of life. 769 00:42:38,793 --> 00:42:42,103 Bad things happen to nice people.